Finnish MP Warns: China and Russia's "Hybrid Warfare" Is Seeking Out Democratic Weaknesses! Are Taiwan and Finland Facing the Same Threat?

The program interviews Finnish Member of Parliament Atte Harjanne to discuss the similarities between Taiwan and Finland in terms of history, democratic development, technology industries, and engineering mindset, as well as the potential for deepening technical cooperation between the two sides. He points out that both places face hybrid influence and hybrid warfare pressure from large neighboring countries, where open democracy, legal systems, maritime law, and maritime transport may be exploited to find weaknesses. The actions of China and Russia need to be addressed through information sharing and international coordination.

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It is a similar attitude that exists between the two countries. You mentioned that there are many such situations, and one of them is this understanding that science and technology play a central role in shaping the future, and it really matters who holds them. And I think there is still a lot we can do. I mean, we can certainly learn a lot from Taiwan. In a sense, it is a bit like a larger version of us, so I think there is still a lot of room for growth to deepen cooperation.

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I am the host of the program, Stan. Welcome, everyone.

We are at the annual meeting of the European Taiwan Association.

I am very honored to interview Atte Harjanne.

Member of the Finnish Parliament.

From this beautiful country.

Atte, thank you.

Thank you so much for agreeing to be on my show. Of course, of course, thank you for the invitation.

What do you think of today's meeting?

Uh, it is super important to be able to hold all of this. I mean, it is great to have people from WFTA and EFTA here, everyone joining in, and I think that having discussions, meeting people, and sharing views is really important for building trust and friendship. This is fantastic.

And Finland is so far from Taiwan, yet there are still many historical similarities between the two countries. Both have fought during periods of occupation and have fought for their own independence, striving to build their own capabilities and democratic societies.

So how much do Finns know about Taiwan?

Well, I think they know some basic facts, like, okay, what is Taiwan? Something like that, just the basic history of this country and its position. But I think we have a lot to learn from deeper history, society, and, well, all of this. I want to point out that Freddy has always been excellent, like an advocate for Taiwan, and, like, raising awareness about Taiwan and various issues and perspectives regarding Taiwan, so that is really great.

And of course, in this day and age, uh, if you talk to people about Taiwan, two things will come up. Of course, geopolitics, and, uh, the actions of the People's Republic of China. And then, uh, of course, there is the whole chip industry and the entire value chain of the global data economy, and the key role that Taiwan plays in it. So I think these have been recognized quite clearly, and there is a lot of attention.

What is your take on the technical cooperation between Taiwan and Finland?

Well, I think there is great potential in this area to do more. And I think, as I pointed out in my keynote speech here earlier, I think it is a similar attitude that exists between these two countries. You mentioned that there are many such things, and one of them is this understanding that science and technology play a central role in shaping the future, and it really matters who holds them. And I think there is a lot we can do. I mean, we can certainly learn a lot through Taiwan. From a certain perspective, it is like a larger version of ourselves, in that sense, so I think there is still a lot of room for growth to deepen cooperation.

And there is another similarity between Finland and Taiwan, having a very huge and aggressive neighbor threatening the security of both countries.

Uh, what? Because recently Finland joined NATO and has been more outspoken in supporting Ukraine. Uh, Taiwan is also facing a threat from a massive neighbor. What do you think are some experiences these two countries can share with each other?

I think, uh, both are facing some kind of hybrid influence, even hybrid warfare-type, uh, increasing pressure from that big neighbor. And this is a challenging area, um. I mean, your own jurisdiction, your own laws might be used against you. You are an open democratic country, this idea, uh, might be used against you to find weaknesses.

And I feel like laws, maritime law, and maritime transport—you look at the Taiwan Strait and you look at the Baltic Sea—I think there are many similarities in these issues. Of course, many of us know that China and Russia are sort of friends in these operations, and the same goes for these actions. So I think it's very important to share information, and also to coordinate these countermeasures at the global level and see what approaches work. That way we don't leave room for this kind of bullying, malicious influence, or even hybrid warfare to exist.

So I think this point is even more highlighted now. At this moment, we should share very much our understanding of what is happening, what methods are being tried and used, and then think again about how to prevent them. So I think especially in this situation of hybrid warfare, there are many similarities. So, uh, very much, uh, sort of a role for cooperation, and, uh, and finding ways to counter it.

Uh, I am the co-chair of some organization in Finland. The Finnish Parliament has these friendship groups, and we have a friendship, uh, Taiwan friendship group in the parliament.

Have you been to Taiwan?

Yes, yes, yes, I have been, yes.

What did you think of it?

Great place, great place. I mean, I'm looking forward to, looking forward to the next opportunity, but I was just struck by the enthusiasm of the people I talked to, that was really great.

I mean, this whole, this whole kind of reaction there was great. But at the same time, you can also feel that Taiwan is a technological and economic powerhouse. You can feel from that, from that kind of omnipresent feeling how thriving the economy is.

Of course, but also to some extent, the foundation of that. And I also think, my education is as an engineer, so I have a master's degree in technology. And, uh, and I, I found it fascinating that there is this kind of similar engineering mindset.

You can see in many ways that in Taiwan, you have, the country has mastered certain technologies, like for example, whiskey, and like shaking it, even better than Scotch whiskey.

Yeah, yeah, it's like we have that way of acknowledging our own strengths and then refining them, uh, with a firm attitude, and creating this excellence in, in highly sophisticated fields. And I think that's something we also have some experience with here in Finland. But as I said, like this is something I can really sort of, um, get into, and it's really interesting to hear these things here.

But of course, the depth of culture, the richness of the whole country, the culture of this country is amazing.

And the last question, as more and more Taiwanese people are interested in Finland, also because of Freddie and what he's doing here, uh, do you have anything to say to Taiwanese people? Those who want to visit your beautiful country?

Well, I think what I just said, those things that make Taiwan such a special place, and worth visiting to me, are equally reflected here. So I would say, being a Taiwanese person in Finland, you will feel very welcome.

Uh, we have our, you know, nature, there is, there is a lot, going out to get close to it. Taiwan is also like that, there is a lot to explore. This, the innate sense of trust in Finnish society makes this a very safe and interesting place to explore and do all kinds of things. And Finnish people are very pragmatic, so it's easy to approach them, chat with them, get help, and, and get to know Finnish society deeply. And, and there are many people who speak English here.

Yes, yes, almost no language barrier. You can survive in Finland by speaking English.

Absolutely, absolutely, that, that helps you. So I would be very happy to welcome everyone here.

Thank you very much, Atte.

Thank you.

That's a similar attitude between the two countries. You mentioned there are a lot of this. One of this is this understanding that science and technology are in a core role in shaping the future. And in whose hands those are is really important. And I think we can do a lot. I mean, we can learn a lot for sure through Taiwan. That's kind of like a bigger version of us in a way in this sense. So I think there's a lot to grow for deepening cooperation.

Thanks for inviting. What do you think about today's conference?

Uh super important to have all this. I mean great to have WFTA and EFTA people here everyone join. And I think already discussing meeting And I have the honor to interview Atte Harjanne

A member of parliament ofFinland this beautifulcountry

Atte thank you

so much for agreeing to take part in my show

Sure sure

Thanks for invitingwhat do you thinkabout Today's conference?

Uh super important to have all this

I mean great to have

WFTA and EFTA people here everyone join

AndI think they know the basics of them like okay what is Taiwan? but still there are manyhistoric similarities

between the twocountry and the position. But I think they know the basics of them like

okay what is Taiwan?

What is like that thekind of the basichistory of the country and the position

But I think we have a lot to learn

from kind of the deeper historythe society. Um and all that I would point out that Freddy has been an excellent like a champion of Taiwan and Taiwan's like rising awareness about Taiwan and Taiwan's issues and perspective a lot. So that's that's great.

And of course now in current times, if you talk about Taiwan to people, two things come about, of course geopolitics and the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)'s actions. And then of course the whole chip industry and the whole kind of value chains of global data economy and Taiwan's key crucial role in that. So I think those are pretty well recognized. And there's a lot of interest.

What do you think about the technology cooperation between Taiwan and Finland?

Well, as I think it's there's a lot of potential to do even more. And I think, as I pointed out in my earlier keynote here, is that I think that's a similar attitude between the two countries. You mentioned there are a lot of this. One of this is this understanding that science and technology are in a core role in shaping the future. And in whose hands those are is really important. And I think we can do a lot. I mean, we can learn a lot for sure through Taiwan. That's kind of like a bigger version of us in a way in this sense. So I think there's a lot to grow for deepening cooperation.

There is another similarity between Finland and Taiwan. There is a very big and aggressive neighbor that is threatening the security of these two countries. Uh, what, because recently Finland has joined NATO and has been more vocal in its support of Ukraine. Uh, Taiwan is also facing a threat coming from a big neighbor. What do you think are the experiences of the two countries that can, that they can share with each other?

I think both are facing a kind of hybrid influence, even hybrid warfare type of pressure rising from the big neighbor. And and this is a challenging field where um, I mean, your own jurisdiction, your own laws can be kind of tried to use against you. You're the idea that you're an open democracy that can be kind of used as a against you and finding vulnerabilities. And I think also things like laws of the seas and how maritime transport, you look at the Strait of Taiwan and you look at the Baltic Sea, I think a lot of these issues have similarities.

A lot of of course we know that China and Russia are kind of friends in these actions as well. So I think it's very important to share information. And also on a global level coordinate the countermeasures and see what kind of works. So so that we don't leave up room for this type of bullying and malign influence and even hybrid warfare. So I think that is even more underlined in this time that we should be very much sharing the kind of the our kind of sense of what's happening and what are what the tricks, what kind of tricks are being tried. And then again how to protect from them. So I think especially in this kind of hybrid landscape, there are a lot of similarities. And so very much kind of role for for cooperation and and finding ways to countergo.

Uh, well, I'm the co-chair of kind of Finnish parliament has these friendship groups. And we have a friendship um, friendship group of Taiwan in the parliament. Have you been to Taiwan? Yeah yeah yeah, I've been yeah. What do you think about it?

Lovely place, lovely place. I mean I'm I'm looking forward for for the next opportunity, but I I was just like by the warmth of the people I'm talking with, that's that's just super nice. I mean it's it's the whole kind of response of being there was excellent. But also the you can sense that techno-economic powerhouse the Taiwan is, you can kind of get it from the from the sense all over. The how much of how the economy is booming, of course, but but also kind of the the basis of that.

And then I also think I'm an engineer by my education, so I'm a master of technology. And and I I feel fascinating how there are this kind of how the kind of similar engineering mindset in a way. Uh, you can see in many ways in in Taiwan where you've the nation has mastered some technology, be it like whiskey for example, and like shaking it. Better than Scotland. Yeah yeah it's like we have the kind of acknowledging your strengths and then refining them in a determined way and creating this excellence in in highly sophisticated fields. And I think that's something that we also have some experience here in Finland, but I said like, this is something I can really kind of um, get into. And that's that was really interesting to hear here that stuff.

But of course the depth of culture, the riches of the whole country, culture of the country is amazing. And final question, as more and more Taiwanese people are being interested in Finland, also because of Freddie and what he does here, uh, do you have anything to say to the Taiwanese who would like to visit your beautiful country?

Well I I think the the stuff that I said what made Taiwan such a special place for me to visit are kind of mirror here as well. So I would say that being Taiwanese in Finland you're gonna feel very welcome. Uh, we have our you know the nature there's a lot of that go out there, so that is Taiwan as well. there's a lot to explore. The inherent trust building that the Finnish society makes a very safe and interesting place to kind of explore and do stuff. And Finns are very down to earth, so it's very easy to approach and talk and get help and and kind of deep dive into the Finnish society, so.

And there are many English speakers here. Yeah yeah yeah. Almost no language barrier. You speak English, you can survive in Finland. Definitely definitely that's that helps you out. So I'm happy to welcome um everyone here. Thank you so much Atte. Thank you