Is Panama going to restore diplomatic relations with Taiwan?! Member of Parliament reveals exclusively: 50 out of 71 members support Taiwan! The CCP is furious and applying pressure, and there are even plans to establish a Taiwan embassy!

In this episode, host Stan conducted an exclusive interview with Panamanian Congressman José Pérez Barboni at the IPAC (Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China) summit in The Hague. During the interview, Barboni revealed that there is strong support for Taiwan within Panama and among its parliamentarians, with a significant proportion of the 71 members supporting Taiwan. Various sectors in Panama are discussing the establishment of a trade office—similar to those in countries like Colombia—to strengthen diplomatic and legal ties, and are working to re-establish close connections with Taiwan. The discussion also covered the true meaning of UN Resolution 2758 and highlighted Panama's beautiful tourist attractions.

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Full transcript:

Hard-hitting news, listening to the news is the best. I am your host, Stan, and welcome to our program. We are currently at IPAC, the Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China, and today, I have the honor of speaking with this distinguished individual, Panamanian Congressman Mr. José Pérez Barboni. Thank you very much for agreeing to be on my show.

No, thank you. Thank you very much for inviting me for this interview. I am very happy to be here in The Hague, participating in this impressive event that we have experienced over the past few days, especially because we have had the opportunity to meet other legislators and colleagues from different countries who are legislating for free economies, the free world, human rights, and of course, countering the consequences caused by Chinese influence, which, you know, involves a lack of respect for democracy, military aggression, and hostility. And now, we have agreed on some commitments that will be implemented in our legislation, in our parliaments. The core idea is always to protect our constituents, to protect the free world, and to draw closer to Taiwan. Taiwan is an ally in this battle for democracy, and this country is doing everything right in terms of semiconductors, investment in tech and economy, and logistics. Especially for a country like Panama, we share maritime and logistics sectors with Taiwan. That was actually an opportunity I had when I went to Kaohsiung; I visited the Evergreen terminal and the Yang Ming Marine Transport terminal. It was truly impressive, so I think that is a goal we need to strive for. Now, at this event, we have the opportunity to frequently share these kinds of experiences and also see how we can achieve this through policies that need to be implemented, so that our countries can continue to grow and move closer to our allies, like Taiwan and other nations.

Is this your first time attending IPAC, or have you been here before? Yes, this is my first time attending the IPAC summit. I didn't have the chance to go to Brussels last year, but I heard great reviews from my Panamanian colleagues who did go. Some of them came again this year because they were so impressed by this event. The energy this year is very vibrant, and I think the name of this conference really lives up to its reputation—it perfectly matches everything we are doing. It's not just empty talk, but action. Or what is the exact name? Do you remember? Action, precisely, action rather than empty talk. So I think that is exactly what we have seen at this conference, and I hope that when we meet again next year, we can share the results we have achieved from the various ideas we are trying to build at this conference.

You are very passionate about Taiwan today, and many people have noticed. Everyone is talking about Taiwan now, and about the possibility of restoring diplomatic relations with Panama. Could you please elaborate and talk a bit more about this?

Of course, so the idea of Panama establishing relations with Taiwan is a topic being discussed by everyone, not just politicians, but also Panamanian society. Taiwan was still in our country until 2017. That year, unfortunately, that relationship came to an end, but now we are considering another step, which is a commercial office. We believe this is both diplomatically and legally feasible. We need to have this possibility, to establish these relations with a very active commercial actor. People might not know this, but Taiwan has a container terminal on the Atlantic side of the country, located at the Atlantic entrance of the Panama Canal. But now the practically feasible approach relies on a commercial office, just like the ones established by many other countries, such as Colombia, the United States, and many other allies in this region. We want to follow their example in doing the right thing, because I believe that as legislators, as parliamentarians of our respective countries, we have the freedom to decide who we want to ally with. This does not mean we have any hostility toward the people from China, or toward those communities in our country. They are a great, active, and wonderful people. The issue is, as we have mentioned, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and what they do, because their behavior is very hostile at times, and we are striving to ensure that our decisions are independent and always seek the best options for our constituents.

Do you think forums like IPAC can help you counter coercion from the Chinese Communist Party (CCP)?

Oh, yes, it really helps, because we acquire tools, we find experts, and we form a united front. This is important because you know you are not alone. When you hear experiences shared here, you notice that people are experiencing the exact same situations as your country. Of course, every context is different, but we are striving to ensure that the pressure actually doesn't make us weak; quite the opposite, we want to continue pursuing that goal, which is to bring Taiwan closer to our country, and to ensure that our country does not get involved in any form of contracts or agreements with those who are not, for example, signatories to the Budapest Convention, such as China. We want to keep our infrastructure, our critical infrastructure, in a secure, you know, environment, and this is the responsibility that falls on people like us. So this is fighting back with our own united front, a front, using our own united front?

Exactly. I think that is the geopolitical situation we are currently in. We must stand together, those of us who believe this is the right path, and we know it is because we see the results, we see these impacts, we see who, right here in this conference room, are the people we just met at the IPAC summit. And what is impressive is that we are always striving to make places better, wherever we are, whether in Africa, Asia, the Indo-Pacific region, Australia, or Panama, we always hold the same mindset, and I am very proud to be a part of it. You know, this alliance, you have been to Taiwan before, what are your thoughts on that country?

Actually, many people don't know this, but I had been to Taiwan before this official visit, because I went there when I was a child, and I really love Taiwan. It's a beautiful country, and now I have the opportunity to get to know their government, their authorities, and their enterprises—it's just amazing. Things like the level of technology they have achieved, reaching a diplomatic level, that level of, you know, the societal level, let's say, the awareness of what is happening in the world, the degree of civic participation, and the patriotism they possess—that is something I very much look forward to achieving in our country. Because as I said, we have many similarities, and we can move toward becoming a better country, which in my case is Panama. Looking at our relationship, how do you think Panama can benefit from having better relations with Taiwan? And how can Taiwan benefit from having better relations with Panama?

Actually you don't need to imagine that scenario, because as I said, we used to have diplomatic relations with them, back in 2017. They were pioneers, providing scholarships to some Panamanian students, those who wanted to study international relations, maritime logistics, they wanted to be ship captains, just like Taiwan supported Panama's high-quality education back then by offering scholarships to the people. At the same time, they even founded a school in Panama called the Sino-Panamanian School, and that school nurtured many professionals, many people in the private sector and the education department. At the same time, Taiwan has also been supporting, as I said, Panama's logistics industry. Companies like Evergreen and Yang Ming have been present in our country for so many years, everyone knows their brand. You see a green container and you know, oh, that's Evergreen, or you see a container stamped with Y and M and say, oh, that's Yang Ming. People know Taiwan because of their reputation, because of their enterprises, because of their good deeds and actions, and that is what we must always strive to achieve. And Taiwan, you know, building these relations will help us reach that goal. And on the other hand, because Panama is crucial geographically, how do you imagine the future relationship between the two countries? What can Panama offer to Taiwan?

Yes, that would be a very tricky situation because if you think about it, having China as a diplomatic partner, and Panama respecting that, puts Panama in a difficult position to rebuild that embassy, that specific relationship, due to the UN General Assembly resolution. But having Taiwan as a commercial partner and setting up a commercial office would make people realize that back then, we looked in the wrong direction, looked in the wrong direction back in 2017 when we decided to sever those relations. Taiwan, even when we face disasters like recently, when an earthquake happened in Panama, they responded that they were willing to help, they were willing to provide solutions. When we faced the pandemic, when we faced COVID-19 in 2020, Taiwan was among the first countries to decide to lend a helping hand, in terms of biomedical equipment, and everything needed for hospitals, masks for the public, anything Panama needed, even though we didn't have diplomatic relations at the time, Taiwan still stepped up. So now imagine if we open that office, if we start that period that needs to be, let's say, taken out of a frozen state, out of the refrigerator, you know, to get it back on track, then Panama would see a great ally, would see not coercion, not someone bullying it, Panama would see an ally that wants to help and wants to give to Panama, because Taiwan knows what they are doing, they are very capable of achieving many things, and Panama, I think they see it as a little brother on the other side of the Pacific, hoping to get closer. And you just mentioned that resolution, UN General Assembly Resolution 2758, many parliaments across Europe, countries, and the European Parliament have passed motions and resolutions stating that the People's Republic of China misinterprets the text of Resolution 2758, because it does not talk about Taiwan, it only talks about representation, a country named China, and the Chiang Kai-shek regime being expelled from the UN, but it does not mention Taiwan. Are there any discussions in Panama regarding this resolution, inside the Panamanian government and the Panamanian parliament?

Yes, we have talked about this, especially within IPAC, members in Congress, we have about 11 members out of 71 legislators, and we have also been discussing this with members of our party and with our other colleagues, and we do not have, let's say, any problem with Taiwan, joining the various occasions they set up, being excluded because of this resolution. There is an important thing to mention, and this was built by members of different parties, so if you think about it, for us, our interpretation of this resolution, of course, lags far behind in terms of allowing Taiwan to join the negotiating table, because we really want them to be part of UN discussions, we want them to be part of the International Maritime Organization, we want them to be part of the World Trade Organization, they must sit at those negotiating tables because they represent a very large proportion in all these fields, and Panama will not let itself get tangled up in this; on the contrary, we will support it, and I think if this enters our discussion agenda in the plenary session of the Panamanian Congress, we will definitely speak up for Taiwan. But unfortunately, this is not something we can decide, but we will definitely speak up loudly for it.

Final question, we have talked a lot about Taiwan. If you have a few words you would like to say to the people of Taiwan, what would they be?

That would be in Panama, where many people care about you, many people are thinking of you. When we think of you, we do so with a lot of, you know, love and care. As I said, you have a country that is ready to rebuild these relationships, to rebuild, the possibility of establishing connections in terms of flights and maritime routes. I also hope you can visit Panama, because even though we do not have diplomatic relations, I think if you come to Panama, you will always receive a warm embrace, and people will welcome you with open arms. That is the portrait of Panamanians, and I think it is also the portrait of Taiwanese people. When you go to their country, you will be met with full affection, full joy, and I am very happy to have the opportunity to visit your country again. I also hope you can come to my place, and we can build a closer, you know, friendship in this situation. Panama is beautiful. I know not many Taiwanese people—it is not the number one destination when they travel abroad. What would you recommend to Taiwanese people who want to visit Panama?

Oh, of course, you must go to the beaches, like, we have a beautiful place called San Blas, about a two-hour drive from the city, guaranteed to amaze you. The water there is crystal clear, super warm, beautiful beaches, beautiful coconut trees, palm trees, it has everything. For someone, this is simply a perfect paradise. After traveling such a long way to the Caribbean, to Panama, you know, this part of the world, you will really enjoy San Blas. And anything related to the Old Town, that is our old city, it will also make you fall in love with, like, a completely different world, a different century. So I highly recommend everyone to visit the Old Town and also San Blas; those are the most beautiful places in terms of beaches and paradise.

Thank you very much, MP, thank you very much, thank you. This is the Freedom is Not Free Channel

I'm your host Stan

Welcome to our show

We are now in the IPAC

Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China's yearly meeting

And today

I have an honor to talk to the great

Panamanian MP

Jose Perez Barboni

Mr Barboni

thank you so much

for agreeing to take part in my show

No thank you

very much for asking me for this interview

I am very happy to be here

in The Hague for this impressive event

that we have had for the past days

Especially because

we had the chance to meet other lawmakers

and fellow colleagues

from different countries that are

legislating in favor of a free economy

a free world human rights and of course

a counter-attacking

what the Chinese influence has done

in terms of you know

not respecting democracy

the military aggressions and hostility

And right now

we have agreed to some commitments that will

be put in place in our legislations

in our congresses

The idea is to always

protect our constituents

the idea is to protect the free world

to get closer to Taiwan

that is an ally in this democratic battle

and that is a country that is doing

everything right in terms of semiconductors

in investment in technology economy

logistics

Especially for a country like Panama

we share the maritime

logistics sector with Taiwan

That was actually an opportunity that I had

when I went to Kaohsiung

that I visited the Evergreen Terminal

and the Yangming Terminal as well

and it was impressive

And so I think

that is something that we need to aim for

And right now in this event

we have the chance to always share this type

of experiences but also see how we can do it

by policies that need to be implemented

in order to keep our countries growing

and getting closer to the allies

like Taiwan and others

Is this your first IPAC

or you've been here before?

Yeah this is my first IPAC summit, I didn't have the chance to go to Brussels last year, but I heard great comments from my fellow colleagues from Panama that did go. Some of them came this year because they were so impressed by the event, the dynamics. This year was very active. I think the name of the conference really made honor to what we did, not words but actions, or what was the actual name? Do you remember? Actions, not words exactly. So I think that's exactly what we saw in this conference, and hopefully next year when we meet we can share the results that we had from the ideas that we were trying to establish in this conference.

You were very passionate about Taiwan today, and many people noticed that. Right now everyone is talking about Taiwan, about the possibility of restoring diplomatic relations with Panama. Could you elaborate and talk a little bit more about it?

Yeah of course I can. So the idea of Panama having relations with Taiwan is something that is on the topic, not only for politicians, but for the Panamanian society. Taiwan was in our country until 2017, the year that sadly the relations came to an end. But right now we are thinking on another step, that is a commercial office. That is something that we think is diplomatically and legally viable. We need to have the possibility of establishing these relations with a very active commercial actor. People may not know this, but Taiwan has a container terminal in the Atlantic side of the country, at the Atlantic entrance of the Panama Canal, but right now the realistic possibility relies on a commercial office, as many other countries do have, like Colombia, like the United States, and many other allies in the region that we would like to emulate in the right things.

Because I think that as lawmakers, as MPs in our countries, we have the freedom to decide who do we want to ally with. That doesn't mean that we have anything against people from China, or the communities that are in our countries, great active beautiful people. The problem is as we are mentioning, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and the way they behave. Because they are behaving in a very hostile way sometimes, and we are trying to make sure that our decisions are independent and are always looking for the best to our constituents.

Do you think forums like IPAC can help your battle against coercion coming from the CCP?

Oh yes it does, because we get the tools, we get the experts, we get a united front. That is important because you know that you're not alone. And when you hear experiences here, you notice that people are experiencing the same situations that you are in your country. Of course every context is different, but we are trying to make sure that that pressure doesn't really make us weak. On the contrary, we want to keep you know pursuing the objective that is getting Taiwan closer to our countries, making sure that our country stays out of any type of contract or agreement with countries that are not, for example, a signatory of the Budapest Convention, like China. We want to keep our infrastructure, our critical infrastructure in a safe you know atmosphere, and that exactly is the responsibility that relies on people like us.

So it's fighting their united front with our own united front?

Totally, and I think that's the geopolitical situation that we have right now. And we need to stay together, the ones that we think that this is the right path, and that we know it is because we see the results, we see the effects. We see who are the individuals that are in this room, that we just left in the IPAC summit. And it's impressive that we are always trying to just make a better place whatever we are regardless if it's Africa, if it's Asia, the Indo-Pacific region, in Australia, or Panama. We're always with the same mentality, and I am very proud to be part of this you know alliance.

You've been to Taiwan before. What do you think about the country?

Actually, and people don't know this, but I was in Taiwan before going in the official trip, because I was there when I was a kid, and I really love Taiwan, a beautiful country. And now that I had the chance to know their government, their authorities, their businesses, it's amazing, like the level of technology that they have reached, the level of diplomacy, the level of you know social let's say awareness of what's happening in the world, of people being involved, the patriotism that they have. That's something that I am very looking forward to achieve in our country. Because as I said, we have a lot of similarities and we can aim to a better country, in my case Panama.

Looking at the mutual relations, how do you think Panama can benefit from better relations with Taiwan? And how can Taiwan benefit from better relations with Panama?

Actually, you don't need to imagine that, because as I said, we used to have diplomatic relationships with them back in 2017. They were pioneers on giving scholarships to some Panamanian students that wanted to study international relations, maritime logistics. They wanted to become captains of ships. Like Taiwan was supporting Panama's superior education in terms of giving scholarships to the people. And at the same time, they even founded a school in Panama, that is known as the Chino Panameño School. And that school has formed many professionals, has formed many individuals in the private education sector. And at the same time, Taiwan was also supporting Panama in the logistics sector as I said. Businesses like Evergreen, Yangming, they've been present in our country for so many years. People know their brand. You see a container that is green and you know oh that's Evergreen. Or you see a container with the Y and M and you say oh that's Yangming. People know Taiwan for their reputation, for their businesses, for their good acts and deeds. And that is something that we need to always try to achieve. And Taiwan, you know, establishing those relationships will help us get to that point.

And on the other hand, because Panama is very crucial geographically, what, how do you imagine the future relations between the two countries?

What can Panama offer Taiwan? Yeah, that's going to be a very tricky situation, because if you think about it, having China as the diplomatic partner and Panama respecting that puts Panama in a difficult position to re-establish that embassy, that specific relationship, because of the UN GA resolution.

But having Taiwan as a commercial partner and having the commercial office will make people realize that we were looking in the wrong direction back then in 2017 when we decided to break those relationships. Taiwan, even when we had disasters like the recent earthquake that happened in Panama, they responded that they wanted to help, that they wanted to give solutions.

When we had the pandemic, when we had the 2020 Covid pandemic, Taiwan was one of the first countries that decided to send help in terms of bio-medical equipment and everything for the hospitals, for the people the face masks, anything that Panama needed, even though we didn't have the relationship, Taiwan was there.

So now imagine what we can achieve if we open that office, if we open that relationship that needs to be, let's say, get it out of the frozen of the fridge and you know, put it back in place.

And so Panama would see a great ally, would see not coercion, not someone bullying it. Panama will see an ally that wants to help and that wants to give to Panama, because Taiwan knows what they are doing, they are very capable of achieving a lot of things.

And Panama, I think that they see it as a little brother on the other side of the Pacific that they would like to get closer to.

And you just mentioned the Resolution 2758 of the UN General Assembly. Many of the parliaments within the European countries and the European Parliament passed the motion and the resolution saying that the PRC is misinterpreting the text of the Resolution 2758 because it doesn't talk about Taiwan, it just talks about the representation of a country called China and Chiang Kai-shek regime is being kicked out of the UN, but not Taiwan. Are there any discussions about the resolution within the Panamanian government and the Panamanian Parliament?

Yeah, we have had that conversation, especially within the IPAC members in Congress. We are around 11 members out of the 71 MPs and we've been having this chat as well with our political parties, with our other colleagues and we have no, let's say, problem with Taiwan joining the different tables that they have been kicked out because of this resolution.

There's something important to mention and that has been established with different members of different political parties. So if you think about it for us, the interpretation of this resolution, of course, stays way behind in terms of allowing Taiwan to join the table, because we really want them to be part of the UN discussions, we want them to be part of the IMO, we want them to be part of the World Trade Organization.

They need to be in those tables because they represent a big percentage in all these sectors and Panama will not get in the middle of that. On the contrary, we will support it, and I think that if that gets to our discussion board in the plenary of the Panamanian Parliament, we will definitely talk in favor of Taiwan. But sadly that doesn't depend on us, but we will definitely make noise about it.

And final question, we've talked about Taiwan a lot. If you had a couple of things to tell the Taiwanese people, what would those things be?

It will be that in Panama, a lot of people care about you, a lot of people think about you, we remember you with a lot of you know love and care.

You have, as I said, a country that is ready to re-establish these relationships, to re-establish the possibility of connections in terms of flights, of maritime routes, and hopefully you can visit Panama, because even though we don't have diplomatic relationships, I think that if you come to Panama, you will always find a warm hug and people will welcome you with open arms and that is exactly what defines Panamanians as I think it defines Taiwanese people.

When you get to their country, you're received with great love, with great joy, and I am very happy that I had the opportunity to revisit your country and hopefully you can visit mine and we can establish a closer you know bond in this case.

Panama is beautiful and I know that not many Taiwanese, it's not number one destination when they travel abroad. What would you recommend to the Taiwanese people who want to visit Panama?

Oh, definitely you gotta go to the beach, like we have a beautiful place called San Blas that is like two hours away from the city and it will just blow your mind. It's crystal clear water, super warm, beautiful sands, beautiful coconut trees, palm trees, everything, it's just the perfect paradise for someone that traveled that long to the Caribbean, to the Panama you know part of the world. You will really enjoy San Blas.

And anything that has to do as well with Casco Antiguo, that is our old town, it will also bring you to like a different century of the world. So I highly recommend people to visiting the old town and also San Blas, that is the most beautiful place in terms of a beach and a paradise.

Thank you so much Congressman. Thank you very much. Thank you.