臺海開戰，美國本土也會遭殃？美國州參議員揭露中國威脅：電網、糧食、通訊恐遭攻擊！｜IPAC 2026 獨家專訪

本期節目斯坦在IPAC年會上獨家專訪了美國內布拉斯加州州參議員艾略特·波爾斯塔。訪談深入探討了內布拉斯加州為應對印太沖突設立的太平洋衝突委員會與壓力測試，評估了潛在衝突對美國本土電網、糧食與通訊等關鍵基礎設施的衝擊，並強調深化美臺合作與經濟自主、共同遏制中國威脅的重要性。

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大家好，歡迎來到「自由不是免費」與新聞硬邦邦，聽新聞最爽頻道，我叫斯坦。今天我們參加一年一度的 IPAC，對中政策跨議會聯盟。我很榮幸與艾略特·波爾斯塔交談，他是內布拉斯加州州參議員。參議員，非常感謝您同意參與我的節目。而參議員提出了內布拉斯加州的 LB 1300，LB 644與LB 1096，處理太平洋衝突整備、外國對手影響力、國際壓迫與農業，以及基礎設施 安全參議員是內布拉斯加州最親近臺灣的朋友之一，非常感謝您同意參與我的節目。感謝您邀請我。

參議員，我們現在在 IPAC 年度高峰會，而這場峰會彙集了立法者，來自世界各地的民主國家。從你的角度來看，作為一名美國州議員，為什麼一個像 IPAC 這樣的組織如此重要？

好的，首先，這是我第二年參加 IPAC，而且這始終是一段令人振奮的經歷，能與決策者齊聚一堂，來自世界各地的，懷抱共同焦點與共同願景，致力於確保民主價值，以及全世界的自由與合作，能夠在另一種選擇面前取得成功。而我們的焦點當然是，在於那個替代選項，它正體現在中華人民共和國的種種作為上，去壓制自由，去壓制民主，並且實質上，對各國的自決權，取得控制性的影響力，遍及世界各國。

你剛才說了那個替代方案，不當民主的替代方案是什麼？因為我認為許多美國人民，臺裔美國人一直生活在民主制度下超過兩百年，臺灣人，這是較年輕的民主，但仍然，很多人不知道，替代方案是什麼，你能告訴大家嗎？

你知道，我認為，你可以看到，民主的替代方案，從外部看在中共內部是什麼樣子。當然，你從內部看得到，但你也可以從外部觀察，而你可以看到這一切如何上演，在世界各地的其他國家。你知道，就拿 IPAC 來說，有許多，來自自由國家的國會議員，代表著世界各國，被脅迫而不敢來這裡，因為來到這裡而受到懲罰，他們因為來這裡而受到制裁，那些人，是經歷，他們的選區承受後果，或他們自己承受後果，或他們個人受到威脅，僅僅因為參與自由，表達想法，以及交流溝通，而那代表，這，自由的反面。所以我們每年都在這場峰會上看到這種情況。

對，我認為沒有任何政治人物，沒有任何民意代表，來自民主國家，應該受到壓力，被任何外國逼迫去做任何事，就像，你唯一要負責的物件是，投票給你的人，對吧？

正是如此，你所在州的人民。所以，你一直積極參與立法，以反制外國干預，並保護內布拉斯加州免受敵對外國勢力影響。但對許多，美國人來說，許多美國人將它視為外交，政策議題，認為這更屬於聯邦政府的職權。你認為為什麼各州，也應該參與這個議題？

好的，那麼，而且我要說清楚，在內布拉斯加州，我們並沒有做任何，與……的作為相牴觸，聯邦政府的，而且，這也不是黨派之爭，對吧？所以我一直投入這件事，當白宮，由民主黨總統主政時，我一直投入這件事，當白宮，眾議院由共和黨總統掌管，我會與我們的聯邦，代表、國防部，國土安全部，國家安全會議持續協調，討論各州需要做些什麼。我要補充的一點是，這些對話當然，我身為州議員曾與，例如，國家安全委員會的成員，這從根本上不會改變，取決於誰入主白宮。這真的是，一個眾所皆知的問題，以及風險，而我們必須，在政府各層級加以應對，而這不是政治問題，這關乎確保生計，我們所，負責的人民受到保護。

而內布拉斯加州已邁出相當大的一步，為潛在後果做準備，印太地區衝突的潛在後果。是什麼促成了這項倡議，而其他，美國各州，應該從內布拉斯加州的經驗學到什麼，以及內布拉斯加州對臺灣的做法？

對。所以我們成立了一個法定委員會，它實際上是一個聯合委員會，政府立法部門，與政府行政部門，內布拉斯加州及該，太平洋衝突委員會，它的任務，包含幾項不同的工作。其中一項是完成太平洋，衝突壓力測試，並且定期進行這項工作。而這會以幾種形式呈現，但從根本上來說，這是對以下情況的分析，一場假想衝突的後果，若發生在太平洋地區，將會帶來什麼影響，對內布拉斯加州及其居民。所以我們會檢視像是我們的進口，出口，我們不只關注進出口，例如來自中國的，也來自太平洋地區的，因為任何發生的衝突，發生在太平洋的衝突不會只是切斷，與中國或臺灣的貿易，或是菲律賓，它會打亂，整個太平洋地區的貿易。所以我們必須採取非常全面，的方式來評估，這對內布拉斯加州人意味著什麼，並盡我們所能做好準備。同時也要明白，任何可能的，太平洋地區的衝突，很可能會伴隨，對我們本土造成一些動能上的後果。你知道，這不是秘密，國防部已多次討論過，這件事，那就是，為了讓美國，置身於太平洋衝突之外，我們應該預期會出現重大幹擾，透過我們的關鍵基礎設施，或糧食供應或其他任何方面，或是，你知道的，通訊，這些會讓生活變得，在美國境內更不穩定的事物，讓美國人在國內有更多，需要擔心的事情，這樣我們就會比較不，準備好且願意參與，保衛海外的民主。所以我們也進行審查，風險因素在哪裡，對每日生活的內布拉斯加人來說，我們在哪裡暴露於風險，以及我們現在能如何著手，來強化這些保護，並確保如果那一天到來，但希望它不會發生，我們已經做好準備。

內布拉斯加州依賴與中國的貿易嗎？

我認為我們，我們都暴露在與中國的貿易往來中，無論是從進口，還是從出口的角度來看。你知道內布拉斯加州是個農業州，而中華人民共和國，你知道他們最大的進口品是，農產品，而我們最大的，出口品也是農產品。所以我們在這方面有曝險，這不僅是內布拉斯加州，而是整個美國都，已經變得過度依賴，特定的製造業投入品，關鍵礦物，而這些，而這些越來越只能透過，中國貿易取得，所以你知道，而這不是一個問題，這甚至不是美國獨有的問題，這是全世界的問題。我知道有很多努力，正投入在試圖解決這個問題上，但就我們而言，你知道，當我們看到，拿一樣重要但平凡的東西來說，像是電力輸送裝置以及，你知道，供我們電力使用的電網變壓器，這些零件的來源，來自許多地方。所以，進行理解的工作，這些零件來自哪裡，以及哪裡，可能有替代供應來源，我們現在或許就想轉向那些來源，但至少，要了解那個整體情況是什麼樣子，這樣一來，在任何衝突爆發的第一天，我們就有足夠的庫存，知道我們需要做什麼。

你認為建立更好，且更牢固的關係，與臺灣合作，能減少我們對那些不，太友善夥伴的依賴，例如中華人民共和國？

我同意，而且我同意是有幾個原因的。我的意思是，臺灣當然是朋友，對美國而言，我們需要儘可能把，依賴與相互依賴，從我們的對手那邊移開，轉向我們的朋友，也轉向我們自己，坦白說也是如此。我們需要更多的自立自強，也需要更多，對朋友的倚重。所以從這個角度來看，我認為這很重要，但同時，我們與臺灣越是一致，並且與臺灣合作，我相信，可能性就越低，我們根本不會看到衝突，因為我們知道的是，中華人民共和國並不想，因臺灣而捲入大規模衝突，因臺灣而捲入動能衝突，如果存在重大風險，美國將會介入。所以，商業往來越多，我們與臺灣往來越多，就越有可能會有，保衛臺灣的意願，這也就意味著我們，發生衝突的可能性會大幅降低，根本不會捲入任何衝突。

看看美國目前的政策，而這來自雙方，政治光譜，世界各地的夥伴都擔心，尤其是在臺灣，美國的支援，對臺灣的支援會保持，和現在一樣強勁。你有什麼話想說，對臺灣人民？那你認為美國，會繼續是臺灣的，主要且最堅強的盟友嗎？

我認為會。我，你知道，我，我很自豪美國，是臺灣的盟友，而且，我希望這能讓，臺灣也感到自豪。你知道，美國，當然也有興趣，看到臺灣採取，它需要採取的措施，以確保它也能，積極地為自身防衛做準備。

我喜歡這個說法「積極地準備」，而因為，我認為這正是這個時代所需要的，正如我剛才所說，我們越是攜手合作，衝突就越不可能發生。同樣地，臺灣越是能做好準備，在防禦方面，就越不可能，這些防禦措施將需要部署。所以，我認為美國希望看到那件事發生，但同時，根據我的經驗，我相信美國，絕對可以成為可靠的盟友，對全世界的民主國家而言，為自由而戰。

非常感謝您，參議員。非常感謝，最後一個問題，您去過臺灣嗎？

我去過，我最近去的。

好的。

我當時在臺灣，大約一個多月前，而且，我迫不及待想再去。

你去過臺灣的哪裡？臺北，還是去過其他城市？

我去了臺北，也順道去了臺南一趟。

喔，我最愛的城市，那真是美麗，是舊首都，對。

參加了一場很棒的徒步導覽，好更深入感受那裡的歷史。而臺灣當然有著，你知道的，這我不用跟你說，對，有著極其豐富的歷史，也有一段艱難的歷史，但這段歷史在臺南完整展現。

謝謝您。謝謝您，參議員，謝謝。希望您能有，更多趟臺灣之行。

我也是，並從外島看遍整個國家，到臺灣東部，到各地的山脈，我等不及了。謝謝。

我們與臺灣越是一致，並且與臺灣合作，我相信，可能性就越低，我們根本不會看到衝突，因為我們知道的是，中華人民共和國並不想，因臺灣而捲入大規模衝突，因臺灣而捲入動能衝突，如果存在重大風險，美國將會介入。所以，商業往來越多，我們與臺灣往來越多，就越有可能會有，保衛臺灣的意願，這也就意味著我們，發生衝突的可能性會大幅降低，根本不會捲入任何衝突。

the more we are aligned with Taiwan and working with Taiwan I believe the less likely it is that we will see a conflict at all Because what we know is the People's Republic of China does not want to engage in a large conflict over Taiwan a kinetic conflict over Taiwan If there is a significant risk the United States will get involved And so the more business and the more we do with Taiwan the more likely it is that the will exist to defend Taiwan which then will mean that we will have significantly less likelihood of having a conflict to engage in at all

Hi everyone Welcome to The Freedom is Not Free and Hardcore News Channels My name is Stan Today we're attending the yearly IPAC Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China meeting and I have an honor to talk to Eliot Bostar who is Nebraska's state senator Senator thank you so much for agreeing to take part in my show And Senator introduced Nebraska's LB 1300 LB 644 and LB 1096 addressing Pacific Conflict Preparedness foreign adversary influence international repression agriculture and infrastructure security Senator is one of the closest friends of Taiwan in the state of Nebraska Thank you so much for agreeing to take part in my show Thank you for having me

Senator we are at the IPAC annual summit and this summit brings together lawmakers from democracies around the world From your perspective as an American state legislator why is an organization like IPAC that important?

Well so first of all this is my second year at IPAC and it's always an inspiring experience to come together with policymakers from around the world with a shared focus and shared vision of ensuring that democratic values and freedom and cooperation around the world will succeed in the face of the alternative And our focus is of course on that alternative being represented by the efforts of the People's Republic of China to stifle freedom to stifle democracy and to essentially take a controlling interest in the self-determination of countries around the world

You just said the alternative What is the alternative to being a democracy?

Because I think many of the American people, Taiwanese Americans, have been living in democracy for more than 200 years. Taiwanese, it's a younger democracy, but still many people don't know what is the alternative. Could you tell everyone?

You know I think you can see it. You can see what the alternative to democracy looks like within the PRC from the outside. Certainly you see it from the inside, but you can also watch it from the outside and you can see how it plays out in other countries around the world.

You know even at IPAC, for example, there are numerous members of parliament from free countries represented around the world who are bullied into not coming here, who are punished for coming here, who are sanctioned for coming here, who are who experience consequences to their constituencies or to themselves or threats to them personally for simply participating in a free expression of ideas and an exchange of communication. And that represents the antithesis of freedom. And so we see it in this summit every year.

Yeah I think no politician, no legislator from a democracy should be pressured by any foreign country into doing anything. Like the only people you're responsible for are people who vote for you, right?

Exactly.

People in your state.

So, you've been actively involved in legislation to counter foreign interference and protect Nebraska from hostile foreign influence. But for many Americans, many American people see it as a foreign policy issue, as more of federal government. Why do you think the states should be involved in this issue as well?

Well so, and to be clear, in Nebraska we aren't doing anything that is counter to the efforts of the federal government. And this also isn't a partisan endeavor, right? So I have been working on this while the White House was occupied by a Democratic president. I've been working on this while the White House is occupied by a Republican president. I coordinate with our federal representatives, the Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security, the National Security Council consistently about what is needed for states to be doing.

And one thing I'll add is the conversations that certainly I've had as a state lawmaker with, for example, members of the National Security Council, it doesn't change fundamentally depending on who's in the White House. This really is a well-understood problem and risk that we need to be addressing at all levels of government. And this isn't a political question. This is about ensuring that the livelihoods of the people that we are responsible for is protected.

And Nebraska has taken a rather big step of preparing for the potential consequences of a conflict in the Indo-Pacific. And what motivated this initiative and what should other American states learn from Nebraska's experience and Nebraska's approach towards Taiwan?

Right. So we created a statutory committee that is actually a joint committee of the legislative branch of government and the executive branch of government of the state of Nebraska and that is the Pacific Conflict Committee. And it's tasked with a few different activities, one of which is to complete the Pacific Conflict Stress Test and to do that regularly. And that takes several forms, but on a fundamental level it is an analysis of what the consequences of a hypothetical conflict in the Pacific would have on the state of Nebraska and its residents.

And so we look at things like our imports, exports. We look at not just imports and exports, for example, from China, but from the Pacific region. Because any sort of conflict that occurs in the Pacific wouldn't just cut off trade with China or Taiwan or the Philippines. It would disrupt trade across the entire Pacific region. And so we have to have a very comprehensive approach to evaluating what that means for Nebraskans and doing what we can to prepare.

Also understanding that any potential conflict in the Pacific very likely would come with some kinetic consequences on our home soil. You know it's not a secret. It's been discussed by the Defense Department repeatedly that in an attempt to keep the United States out of a Pacific conflict, we should expect significant disruptions through our critical infrastructure or food supply or anything else or you know communications. Things that would make life within the United States less stable, giving Americans more things to worry about at home so that we would be less prepared and willing to engage in the protection of democracy abroad. And so we also go through an audit: where are the risk factors to everyday Nebraskans, where are we exposed, and how can we work now to enhance those protections and make sure that if that day comes and hopefully it does not that we're ready?

Is Nebraska dependent on trade with China?

I think we're we all are exposed to trade with China both from an import perspective and an export. You know Nebraska's an agricultural state and the People's Republic of China you know their biggest imports are agricultural products and our biggest exports are agricultural products. So we have an exposure there.

We also not just for Nebraska but for the United States in general are have become far too reliant on specific manufacturing inputs critical minerals that are increasingly only available through Chinese trade. And so you know and that's not a problem that's even unique to the US. That's a problem for the world. And I know a lot of effort is being put into trying to address that.

But just for us you know when we look at take something as important but mundane as electrical transmission equipment and you know grid transformers for our electrical supply. The components of those come from a lot of places. And so doing the work of understanding where those components come from and where alternative supplies may exist we might want to move to those now. But at the very least understanding what that landscape looks like so that on day one of any kind of conflict we have an adequate inventory of what we need to do.

And do you think building better relationships and stronger relationships with Taiwan can decrease this reliance on not very friendly partners like People's Republic of China?

I do and I do for a couple of reasons. I mean certainly Taiwan is a friend to the United States. And we need to be moving as much dependency and interdependency away from our adversaries and toward our friends and toward ourselves frankly as well. We need more self-reliance and we need more friend reliance. So from that perspective I think that's important.

But also the more we are aligned with Taiwan and working with Taiwan I believe the less likely it is that we will see a conflict at all. Because what we know is the People's Republic of China does not want to engage in a large conflict over Taiwan a kinetic conflict over Taiwan. If there is a significant risk the United States will get involved. And so the more business and the more we do with Taiwan the more likely it is that the will exist to defend Taiwan which then will mean that we will have significantly less likelihood of having a conflict to engage in at all.

Looking at the current United States policy and it comes from both sides of the political spectrum partners all around the world are worried especially in Taiwan that the support of the United States of Taiwan will stay as strong as it is right now. Do you have anything to say to the Taiwanese people? And do you think that the United States will remain the main and the strongest ally of Taiwan's?

I do. I you know I I'm proud that the United States is an ally of Taiwan and my hope is that that makes Taiwan proud as well. You know the United States is certainly also interested in seeing Taiwan take the steps it needs to take to ensure that it is also aggressively preparing for its own defense.

I like the saying "aggressively preparing". And because I think that's what these times require. And just as I was saying before that the more we work together the less likely a conflict will be. Similarly the more Taiwan can prepare itself defensively the less likely those defenses will need to be deployed.

And so I think the US wants to see that happen. But at the same time from my experience I believe that the United States can absolutely be a reliable ally to democracies around the world fighting for freedom.

Thank you so much Senator.

Thank you very much.

And one final question. Have you ever been to Taiwan?

I have. I went recently.

Okay.

I was in Taiwan a little over a month ago. And I can't wait to go back.

Where you've been in Taiwan? Taipei or you've visited some other cities?

So I was in Taipei and also took a short trip to Tainan.

Oh my favorite city.

Which was beautiful.

The old capital yeah.

went through a wonderful walking tour to really get a better feel for the history.

And Taiwan of course has you know. I don't have to tell you.

Yep.

Has an incredibly rich history and a difficult history. But one that was on full display in Tainan.

Thank you Senator.

Thank you.

And hope that you'll have more trips to Taiwan.

So do I.

And see all the country from outer islands to the eastern part of Taiwan to the mountains everywhere.

I can't wait.

Thank you