中共勢力買地買到美軍基地旁？美國共和黨議員揭露：猶他州強制撤資3.8萬英畝！臺灣是對抗中共第一道防線！

本期節目採訪了出席IPAC年度會議的美國猶他州眾議員兼共和黨黨鞭Candace Pierucci。訪談深入探討了猶他州率先透過具有追溯效力的法案，要求中共擁有的公司從3.8萬英畝土地中撤資，並阻止其在軍事設施旁及普羅沃機場附近購買敏感地產的舉措。同時，雙方就美國人對中共意識形態的忽視、臺灣作為民主前線的重要戰略地位，以及美臺之間的深厚友誼與合作展開了全面討論。

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第三，我認為我們必須做得更多，以反擊中共並將其制衡，這很難，因為你知道，民選官員會強烈地談論中國，但到了背後，他們卻樂於達成交易和談判，對吧，而不是把他們當作他們本來的壞角色來對待，而我認為我們必須把這個霸凌者逼到角落，並團結起來才能真正在這個議題上帶來改變，我們在猶他州率先行動，我們透過了最有力的政策之一，因為我們的法律不只是積極主動且放眼未來，它具追溯效力，所以我們已要求三萬八千英畝的土地必須從中共擁有的公司撤出，這些地產中最主要的，有一處就緊鄰一座大型軍事設施，我們也擋下了一筆大型普羅沃機場的一筆收購案，因為我們透過的法案而遭到阻擋而且我認為夥伴關係確實存在，因為我們想確保我們是在捍衛該地區一個理念相近的民主國家，而他們是第一，對抗中共的第一道防線，所以我知道，作為一名立法者，我認為這份承諾依然堅定。

And three I think we have to do more to push back on the CCP and put them in check. It's hard because you you know elected officials will speak strongly about China, but then on the back end they're happy to make deals and negotiate right rather than treating them as the bad actor that they are. And I think that we have to put the bully in the corner and band together to actually make a difference on this issue. In Utah we stepped forward, we passed one of the most robust policies because our law is not just proactive and looking forward, it's retroactive. So we have required 38,000 acres be divested from CCP-owned companies. Chief among those properties, one that was right next to a major military installation. We've also blocked a major purchase by the Provo Airport because of the bill that we passed. And I think that the partnership is there because we want to make sure we're defending a like-minded democracy in that region and that they're the first line of defense against the CCP. And so I know I as a legislator think that the commitment is still strong.

大家好，歡迎收看「自由並非無償」以及新聞硬邦邦，聽新聞最爽頻道，我是Stan，今天我們正在參與IPAC年度會議以及對華政策議會聯盟，我有幸與Candace Pierucci交談，來自美麗的猶他州。

是的。

Candace是猶他州最挺臺灣的好朋友之一。

而您是州眾議員，也是共和黨黨鞭。

沒錯，是的。

先做點簡單的背景介紹，您提出了2024年決議案「體育與友誼」與臺灣在猶他州，您也參與了立法工作，處理外國敵對勢力購地以及與強迫勞動相關的採購，歡迎來到節目，感謝您同意參與其中一部分。

感謝邀請，我很感激。

那麼，Candace，第一個問題，我們來稍微談談IPAC，因為這個協會自2020年起便已存在，而且有許多非常重要的活動，這些活動對中國人，和對臺灣人，以及對維吾爾人，以及對僑民社群都很重要，以及對所有有興趣的人，關注中國正在發生什麼事的人，我們現在在IPAC峰會現場，你對今年的峰會有什麼看法？而你認為為什麼國際間在中國議題上的合作如此重要？

嗯，這是我第一次參加IPAC峰會，我有幸能夠出席，到目前為止真的很棒，我認為與其他利害關係人及政策制定者會面，來自全球各地，這非常重要，我認為中國就是，你知道，那個大家避而不談的大問題，而我們必須攜手合作，才能夠應對他們，而且我也認為，強調這一點很有幫助，他們實際上在做什麼，然後分享最佳做法，說明如何反擊並回應他們，許多美國人仍主要將中國視為經濟競爭者，或者也許是貿易伙伴，而未充分理解其背後的意識形態，中國共產黨背後的。

非常感謝您發言，談到意識形態，您是少數幾位講者之一提到了這一點，您認為美國人是否低估了意識形態、中共的本質及其野心？

我認為，身為美國人，我們有一種傾向，就是以為每個人都和我們共享相同的價值觀、共享我們的政府體制和我們的世界觀，而我認為我們必須從中國的長期佈局來看他們正在做的事，我認為習近平已經宣佈他的百年計劃，而且那當然不是讓美國位居上風，而我認為我們必須認清他們就是我們的外國對手，所以我覺得這很難，當我們有這麼多國內問題，而且預算綁在一起，生活成本才是大家想談的，我認為我們可以一心二用，同時兼顧在國家安全上強硬，並反擊中國共產黨，同時也把生活成本降下來，所以回到你的問題，我確實認為我們需要做得更好，在提供教育層面，讓人們瞭解中共究竟是什麼，他們在做什麼，以及我們應該如何以國家身分與他們互動。

你認為臺灣能在這方面提供幫助嗎，以及臺灣作為民主的典範，一個前線的民主，面對來自中國的壓力？

絕對能，我認為臺灣是很好的榜樣，一個因應需要而創新、並且一直是了不起的夥伴，美國的，而且與中國共產黨形成鮮明對比，也正好在該地區樹立了一個例證，自由與民主對比，你知道，中國共產黨及其極權統治方式，以及與我們價值體系相反的一方，所以是的，我確實這麼認為，但我也認為，身為美國人，我們有責任確保在我們深度參與國內事務的同時，也要了解全球正在發生的事。

而談到臺灣，你是少數幾位立法者之一，是誰提出了這項友誼決議，介於猶他州與臺灣之間，為什麼猶他州與臺灣之間的關係，猶他州與臺灣為什麼如此特別？

我認為我們有著相近的精神，而猶他州被稱為先驅蜂巢州，我們勤奮不懈，不斷持續努力，而當我們真的派出，你知道，成千上萬的後期聖徒傳教士到臺灣，他們會回回來並會說這個語言，熱愛這個文化，所以我認為這締結了一份友誼，這也許是其他州沒有的，但我也認為在經濟上，我們在許多事情上立場一致，而且從教育的角度來看，我們已做了很多與他們協調的工作，但我還是認為，這一切終究要回歸到做臺灣的朋友與盟友，我認為這正是更多州需要挺身而出去做的事，我們在猶他州確實設有臺灣友誼，我在猶他州協助擔任共同主席的黨團，而且越來越多的州將必須踏入國家安全領域，而且不僅於此，還有全球互動的領域我認為這是我們在猶他州正在思考的事，就是我們已經與他們建立了這份夥伴關係，而我們希望它能長久延續。

非常感謝你，你去過臺灣嗎？

我去過，是的。

你對臺灣有什麼看法？

那真是令人難以置信，不過我想最讓我印象深刻的是，他們在這麼小的年紀就談論數位素養，在他們教育體系中這麼小的年紀，因為他們不斷遭受中共攻擊，並且建立這些批判性思考能力，在學生還很早的時候，讓他們檢視數位素養，我認為我們可以把這件事做得更好，在美國，並辨識中共的宣傳，以及屬於假訊息的情資，所以我認為有許多方法我們可以借鏡臺灣來協助強化我們自己這邊的做法。

接下來我們來談談外國對手，談一會兒，您支援各項保護猶他州免受這些對手侵害，包括限制敏感土地的購買，以及針對與強迫勞動有關的企業的措施，尤其是在軍事方面，猶他州對美國來說是非常重要的州，為什麼美國各州必須正視這些威脅，而不是把所有事情都交給聯邦政府處理？

對，國會並沒有在這件事上採取行動，但這並不代表只因為他們什麼都不做，問題就不存在，我們在猶他州率先行動，我們透過了最有力的政策之一，因為我們的法律不只是積極主動且放眼未來，它具追溯效力，所以我們已要求三萬八千英畝的土地必須從中共擁有的公司撤出，這些地產中最主要的，有一處就緊鄰一座大型軍事設施，我們也擋下了一筆大型普羅沃機場的一筆收購案，因為我們透過的法案而遭到阻擋其他州也正在透過類似的立法，要把中共趕出他們的州。

最近有沒有那些不良行為者試圖購買土地的例子，例如敏感地區，例如軍事基地旁邊？或者因為日本已經有很多案例，舉例來說，他們喜歡購買土地，非常靠近機場，靠近某些軍事設施？

是的，所以在猶他州我們剛擋下了他們試圖買下土地，對吧，去年在普羅沃機場旁邊，然後就像我說的，我們才剛要求他們撤資，就在一處大型軍事設施旁邊，但這種情況正在全美各地發生，也就是說，會有農地緊鄰這些軍事基地，而我認為我們必須，真的必須留意這一點，我的意思是，那是一個極大的弱點，我們讓自己暴露在其中，所以與其等待聯邦政府，各州可以採取行動，他們可以做到這件事，而我們一直很有效，在推動這項立法上，併成為其他州的典範。

這太棒了，我認為全國都應該向猶他州學習，而談到臺灣的重要性，因為美國和臺灣共享民主價值，也有經濟利益，半導體產業，以及對自由的承諾，從你的角度來看，作為一名共和黨籍議員，為什麼美國人應該關心臺灣的未來？那麼，對美國而言，風險會是什麼，如果北京試圖以武力改變現狀呢？

這是個好問題，我認為在經濟層面上，當我們尋求與中國脫鉤時，臺灣是個值得信賴的好盟友，我認為我們能滿足許多這類需求，並找到其他國家我們可以合作的物件，但我認為，這與世界上其他代理人國家的情況類似，萬一臺灣發生軍事衝突，那對美國人是不利的，而中國共產黨炫耀那股力量，然後試圖擴張，我認為，對全球局勢與權力格局產生重大影響，目前所形成的平衡，所以我認為，第一，那會非常糟糕，我認為第二，我們應該挺身而出作為臺灣的朋友與盟友，第三，我認為我們必須做得更多，以反擊中共並將其制衡，這很難，因為你知道，民選官員會強烈地談論中國，但到了背後，他們卻樂於達成交易和談判，對吧，而不是把他們當作他們本來的壞角色來對待，而我認為我們必須把這個霸凌者逼到角落，並團結起來才能真正在這個議題上帶來改變。

而在臺灣，我認為每一位臺灣人都在密切關注著美國政治，有時他們會擔心美國會繼續與他們站在一起，你想對臺灣人民說些什麼關於美國的支援？

我知道我們的政治總是不斷起伏消長，有高峰也有低谷，但這段關係依然穩固，而且我認為夥伴關係確實存在，因為我們想確保我們是在捍衛該地區一個理念相近的民主國家，而他們是第一，對抗中共的第一道防線，所以我知道，作為一名立法者，我認為這份承諾依然堅定，而這是那些獲得跨黨派支援的領域之一，我的意思是，這就是這場峰會如此令人振奮的原因，這場會議，能夠來到這裡是來自各種意識形態背景的人們都支援這個理念，也就是反擊中國共產黨，並支援臺灣爭取成為自由人民的努力。

非常感謝您，最後一個問題，對於所有想造訪猶他州這個美麗州份的臺灣人，你有什麼建議嗎？

來吧，我們很歡迎你來，你知道，我們將迎來一個大雪季，我們的滑雪和單板滑雪都很盛行，戶外休閒活動，今年我們其實將舉辦鹽湖城聖殿的盛大開放參觀活動，因為我是耶穌基督後期聖徒教會，耶穌基督後期聖徒，而這將是超過100年來首次開放，所以大家應該來看看，我們正著手主辦2034年的奧運，所以有很多機會，有個理由來我們州，非常感謝你，嘿，謝謝你，謝 謝。

Hi everyone, welcome to the Freedom is Not Free and Hardcore News Channels, My name is Stan and today we're taking part in the IPAC yearly meeting, and to parliamentary alliance on China, and I have an honor to talk to Candace Pierucci from the beautiful state of Utah.

Yes.

Candace is one of the biggest friends of Taiwan that the state of Utah has, and you are the state representative and also the Republican Whip.

That's correct yes.

Just some small background introduction, you have sponsored the 2024 Resolution Sport and Friendship with Taiwan in Utah, and you also worked on legislation addressing foreign adversary land purchases and procurement linked to forced labor, So welcome to the show, and thank you for agreeing to do part of it.

Thanks for having me I appreciate it.

So Candace first question, let's talk a little bit about IPAC because this association has been present since 2020, and there are many very important events, important both for the Chinese people and for the Taiwanese, and for Uyghurs, and for the diaspora communities, and for everyone who is interested in what's going on in China, We're meeting here at the IPAC summit, what do you think about this year's summit? And why do you think international cooperation on China is so important?

Well this is my first IPAC summit, I've been able to attend, and it's been fantastic so far, I think meeting with other stakeholders and policymakers from around the globe is so important, I think that China is you know, the big elephant in the room and we have to work together, to be able to take them on, And I think also it's helpful to highlight what they're actually doing, and then share best practices on how to push back and respond to them.

Many Americans still view China primarily as an economic competitor or maybe trade partner, without full understanding the ideology behind the Chinese Communist Party, Thank you so much for speaking about the ideology, you were one of the few speakers who mentioned it, Do you think Americans underestimate the ideological nature of the CCP and its ambitions?

I think as Americans and we have a tendency to assume everyone shares our values shares our form of government and our worldview, And I think that we have to look at China in the long game that they are working, I think Xi Jinping has announced his hundred-year plan and certainly isn't America being on top, And I think that we have to recognize them as the foreign adversary that they are to us, And so I think it is hard when we have so many domestic issues, and the budgets are tied and cost of living is what people want to talk about, I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time though and be strong on national security, and push back on the Chinese Communist Party, and also bring the cost of living down, So again to your question, I do think we need to do a better job when it comes to providing an educational level of understanding who the CCP actually is, what they're doing and how we should be interacting with them as a country.

Do you think Taiwan can help here, and Taiwan's example of being a democracy, a frontline democracy, facing pressure from China?

Absolutely, I think Taiwan is a great example of someone who has innovated out of necessity and has been an incredible partner of the United States, and juxtaposes really well to the Chinese Communist Party, and just shows an example in the region of freedom and democracy versus you know, the Chinese Communist Party, and totalitarian approach to governing, and the opposite of our value system, So yeah I do think so, But I also think it's upon us as Americans, to make sure that while we are very involved in our domestic affairs, to be aware of what's going on globally.

And talking about Taiwan, you were one of the few legislators who introduced the resolution of friendship between Utah and Taiwan, Why is the relationship between Utah, the state of Utah and Taiwan, why is it so special?

I think we share a kindred spirit and Utah is referred to as the pioneer beehive state, We are industrious and constantly working and when we actually send out, you know thousands of, LDS missionaries to Taiwan, and they come back and speak the language, and love the culture, And so I think that forges a friendship, that maybe other states don't have, But I also think economically, we align on so many things, and from an education standpoint, we've done a lot to coordinate with them, But again I think it goes back to being a friend and an ally to Taiwan, and I think that's more states need to step forward and do that, We actually have the Taiwan Friendship Caucus in Utah which I help co-chair, And more and more states are going to have to step into the national security space and more than that, the global interaction space, And I think that's something that we're looking at in Utah is, we've built this partnership with them, and we want it to last.

Thank you so much, Have you ever been to Taiwan?

I have yeah.

What do you think about it?

It was absolutely incredible. I think what I was most impressed by though is they talked about digital literacy at such a young age in their education system because they're constantly under attack by the CCP and establishing those critical thinking skills early on as their students are reviewing digital literacy. I think we can do a better job of that in the United States and identifying CCP propaganda and information that's disinformation. And so I think there are a lot of ways we can look to Taiwan to help enhance what we're doing on our side.

And let's talk about foreign adversaries for a while. You supported efforts to protect Utah from those adversaries including restrictions on sensitive land purchases and measures addressing companies associated with forced labor, especially militarily. Utah is a very important state for the US. Why is it important for American states to take these threats seriously rather than living everything to the federal government?

Yeah, Congress isn't moving on it, but it doesn't mean just because they're not doing anything the problem isn't there. n Utah we stepped forward, we passed one of the most robust policies because our law is not just proactive and looking forward, it's retroactive. So we have required 38,000 acres be divested from CCP-owned companies. Chief among those properties, one that was right next to a major military installation. We've also blocked a major purchase by the Provo Airport because of the bill that we passed. And other states are passing similar legislation to get the CCP out of their state.

Are there any recent cases of those bad actors attempting to purchase land in for example sensitive areas like next to the military bases? Or because there have been many in Japan for example, they like purchasing land very close to the airport, to some military installations?

Yes, so in Utah we just blocked, they tried to buy land right next to the Provo Airport last year. And then like I said, we just required they divest next to a major military installation. But this is happening nationwide where you have agricultural land next to these military bases. And I think we have to be really mindful of that. I mean that's a, that's a huge vulnerability we've opened ourselves up to. And so instead of waiting for the federal government states can act, they can do this. And we've been effective in pushing this legislation and being a model for other states.

This is great. I think the whole country should learn from Utah. And looking at Taiwan's importance because the United States and Taiwan share democratic values, also economic interests, the semiconductor industry, and a commitment to freedom. From your perspective as a Republican legislator, why should Americans care about Taiwan's future? And what would be at stake for the United States if Beijing attempted to change the status quo by force?

It's a great question. I think that one, economically, as we look to decouple from China, Taiwan is a great ally that's trusted that I think we can fill a lot of those needs and find other countries that we can partner with. But I think that similar to other proxy countries around the world, should something happen militarily in Taiwan that's bad for Americans. And the Chinese Communist Party flexing on that power and then trying to expand would, I think, greatly impact the global stage and the power balance that's in place right now. So I think one, it'd be very bad. I think two, we should stand as friends and allies of Taiwan. And three, I think we have to do more to push back on the CCP and put them in check.

It's hard because you, you know, elected officials will speak strongly about China, but then on the back end they're happy to make deals and negotiate right rather than treating them as the bad actor that they are. And I think that we have to put the bully in the corner and band together to actually make a difference on this issue.

And in Taiwan I think every single Taiwanese person is following, closely following American politics. And sometimes they worry that the United States will continue to stand with them. What would you like to tell the people of Taiwan about the United States' support?

I know that our politics are constantly ebbing and flowing, and there are high peaks and low troughs, but the relationship is strong. And I think that the partnership is there because we want to make sure we're defending a like-minded democracy in that region, and that they're the first line of defense against the CCP. And so I know I as a legislator think that the commitment is still strong and it's one of those areas that has bipartisan support. I mean that's what's so encouraging about this summit, this conference to be able to come here is people from all ideological backgrounds are supportive of this idea of pushing back on the Chinese Communist Party and supporting Taiwan in their efforts to be a free people.

Thank you so much. And final question, for all the Taiwanese who would like to visit the beautiful state of Utah, what would you recommend?

Come on out we'd love to have you come. You know, we're going to have a big snow season and we skiing and snowboarding are big recreational outdoor activities. We're actually going to have this year a massive open house for the Salt Lake Temple for I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and it's going to be the first time in over 100 years that it's open, so people should come out. We're working at hosting the Olympics in 2034, so there's plenty of opportunities to have a reason to come to our state.

Thank you so much. Hey, thank you. Thank you.