台海开战，美国本土也会遭殃？美国州参议员揭露中国威胁：电网、粮食、通讯恐遭攻击！｜IPAC 2026 独家专访

本期节目斯坦在IPAC年会上独家专访了美国内布拉斯加州州参议员艾略特·波尔斯塔。访谈深入探讨了内布拉斯加州为应对印太冲突设立的太平洋冲突委员会与压力测试，评估了潜在冲突对美国本土电网、粮食与通讯等关键基础设施的冲击，并强调深化美台合作与经济自主、共同遏制中国威胁的重要性。

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大家好，欢迎来到「自由不是免费」与新闻硬邦邦，听新闻最爽频道，我叫斯坦。今天我们参加一年一度的 IPAC，对中政策跨议会联盟。我很荣幸与艾略特·波尔斯塔交谈，他是内布拉斯加州州参议员。参议员，非常感谢您同意参与我的节目。而参议员提出了内布拉斯加州的 LB 1300，LB 644与LB 1096，处理太平洋冲突整备、外国对手影响力、国际压迫与农业，以及基础设施 安全参议员是内布拉斯加州最亲近台湾的朋友之一，非常感谢您同意参与我的节目。感谢您邀请我。

参议员，我们现在在 IPAC 年度高峰会，而这场峰会汇集了立法者，来自世界各地的民主国家。从你的角度来看，作为一名美国州议员，为什么一个像 IPAC 这样的组织如此重要？

好的，首先，这是我第二年参加 IPAC，而且这始终是一段令人振奋的经历，能与决策者齐聚一堂，来自世界各地的，怀抱共同焦点与共同愿景，致力于确保民主价值，以及全世界的自由与合作，能够在另一种选择面前取得成功。而我们的焦点当然是，在于那个替代选项，它正体现在中华人民共和国的种种作为上，去压制自由，去压制民主，并且实质上，对各国的自决权，取得控制性的影响力，遍及世界各国。

你刚才说了那个替代方案，不当民主的替代方案是什么？因为我认为许多美国人民，台裔美国人一直生活在民主制度下超过两百年，台湾人，这是较年轻的民主，但仍然，很多人不知道，替代方案是什么，你能告诉大家吗？

你知道，我认为，你可以看到，民主的替代方案，从外部看在中共内部是什么样子。当然，你从内部看得到，但你也可以从外部观察，而你可以看到这一切如何上演，在世界各地的其他国家。你知道，就拿 IPAC 来说，有许多，来自自由国家的国会议员，代表著世界各国，被胁迫而不敢来这里，因为来到这里而受到惩罚，他们因为来这里而受到制裁，那些人，是经历，他们的选区承受后果，或他们自己承受后果，或他们个人受到威胁，仅仅因为参与自由，表达想法，以及交流沟通，而那代表，这，自由的反面。所以我们每年都在这场峰会上看到这种情况。

对，我认为没有任何政治人物，没有任何民意代表，来自民主国家，应该受到压力，被任何外国逼迫去做任何事，就像，你唯一要负责的对象是，投票给你的人，对吧？

正是如此，你所在州的人民。所以，你一直积极参与立法，以反制外国干预，并保护内布拉斯加州免受敌对外国势力影响。但对许多，美国人来说，许多美国人将它视为外交，政策议题，认为这更属于联邦政府的职权。你认为为什么各州，也应该参与这个议题？

好的，那么，而且我要说清楚，在内布拉斯加州，我们并没有做任何，与……的作为相抵触，联邦政府的，而且，这也不是党派之争，对吧？所以我一直投入这件事，当白宫，由民主党总统主政时，我一直投入这件事，当白宫，众议院由共和党总统掌管，我会与我们的联邦，代表、国防部，国土安全部，国家安全会议持续协调，讨论各州需要做些什么。我要补充的一点是，这些对话当然，我身为州议员曾与，例如，国家安全委员会的成员，这从根本上不会改变，取决于谁入主白宫。这真的是，一个众所皆知的问题，以及风险，而我们必须，在政府各层级加以应对，而这不是政治问题，这关乎确保生计，我们所，负责的人民受到保护。

而内布拉斯加州已迈出相当大的一步，为潜在后果做准备，印太地区冲突的潜在后果。是什么促成了这项倡议，而其他，美国各州，应该从内布拉斯加州的经验学到什么，以及内布拉斯加州对台湾的做法？

对。所以我们成立了一个法定委员会，它实际上是一个联合委员会，政府立法部门，与政府行政部门，内布拉斯加州及该，太平洋冲突委员会，它的任务，包含几项不同的工作。其中一项是完成太平洋，冲突压力测试，并且定期进行这项工作。而这会以几种形式呈现，但从根本上来说，这是对以下情况的分析，一场假想冲突的后果，若发生在太平洋地区，将会带来什么影响，对内布拉斯加州及其居民。所以我们会检视像是我们的进口，出口，我们不只关注进出口，例如来自中国的，也来自太平洋地区的，因为任何发生的冲突，发生在太平洋的冲突不会只是切断，与中国或台湾的贸易，或是菲律宾，它会打乱，整个太平洋地区的贸易。所以我们必须采取非常全面，的方式来评估，这对内布拉斯加州人意味著什么，并尽我们所能做好准备。同时也要明白，任何可能的，太平洋地区的冲突，很可能会伴随，对我们本土造成一些动能上的后果。你知道，这不是秘密，国防部已多次讨论过，这件事，那就是，为了让美国，置身于太平洋冲突之外，我们应该预期会出现重大干扰，透过我们的关键基础设施，或粮食供应或其他任何方面，或是，你知道的，通讯，这些会让生活变得，在美国境内更不稳定的事物，让美国人在国内有更多，需要担心的事情，这样我们就会比较不，准备好且愿意参与，保卫海外的民主。所以我们也进行审查，风险因素在哪里，对每日生活的内布拉斯加人来说，我们在哪里暴露于风险，以及我们现在能如何著手，来强化这些保护，并确保如果那一天到来，但希望它不会发生，我们已经做好准备。

内布拉斯加州依赖与中国的贸易吗？

我认为我们，我们都暴露在与中国的贸易往来中，无论是从进口，还是从出口的角度来看。你知道内布拉斯加州是个农业州，而中华人民共和国，你知道他们最大的进口品是，农产品，而我们最大的，出口品也是农产品。所以我们在这方面有曝险，这不仅是内布拉斯加州，而是整个美国都，已经变得过度依赖，特定的制造业投入品，关键矿物，而这些，而这些越来越只能透过，中国贸易取得，所以你知道，而这不是一个问题，这甚至不是美国独有的问题，这是全世界的问题。我知道有很多努力，正投入在试图解决这个问题上，但就我们而言，你知道，当我们看到，拿一样重要但平凡的东西来说，像是电力输送设备以及，你知道，供我们电力使用的电网变压器，这些零件的来源，来自许多地方。所以，进行理解的工作，这些零件来自哪里，以及哪里，可能有替代供应来源，我们现在或许就想转向那些来源，但至少，要了解那个整体情况是什么样子，这样一来，在任何冲突爆发的第一天，我们就有足够的库存，知道我们需要做什么。

你认为建立更好，且更牢固的关系，与台湾合作，能减少我们对那些不，太友善伙伴的依赖，例如中华人民共和国？

我同意，而且我同意是有几个原因的。我的意思是，台湾当然是朋友，对美国而言，我们需要尽可能把，依赖与相互依赖，从我们的对手那边移开，转向我们的朋友，也转向我们自己，坦白说也是如此。我们需要更多的自立自强，也需要更多，对朋友的倚重。所以从这个角度来看，我认为这很重要，但同时，我们与台湾越是一致，并且与台湾合作，我相信，可能性就越低，我们根本不会看到冲突，因为我们知道的是，中华人民共和国并不想，因台湾而卷入大规模冲突，因台湾而卷入动能冲突，如果存在重大风险，美国将会介入。所以，商业往来越多，我们与台湾往来越多，就越有可能会有，保卫台湾的意愿，这也就意味著我们，发生冲突的可能性会大幅降低，根本不会卷入任何冲突。

看看美国目前的政策，而这来自双方，政治光谱，世界各地的伙伴都担心，尤其是在台湾，美国的支持，对台湾的支持会保持，和现在一样强劲。你有什么话想说，对台湾人民？那你认为美国，会继续是台湾的，主要且最坚强的盟友吗？

我认为会。我，你知道，我，我很自豪美国，是台湾的盟友，而且，我希望这能让，台湾也感到自豪。你知道，美国，当然也有兴趣，看到台湾采取，它需要采取的措施，以确保它也能，积极地为自身防卫做准备。

我喜欢这个说法「积极地准备」，而因为，我认为这正是这个时代所需要的，正如我刚才所说，我们越是携手合作，冲突就越不可能发生。同样地，台湾越是能做好准备，在防御方面，就越不可能，这些防御措施将需要部署。所以，我认为美国希望看到那件事发生，但同时，根据我的经验，我相信美国，绝对可以成为可靠的盟友，对全世界的民主国家而言，为自由而战。

非常感谢您，参议员。非常感谢，最后一个问题，您去过台湾吗？

我去过，我最近去的。

好的。

我当时在台湾，大约一个多月前，而且，我迫不及待想再去。

你去过台湾的哪里？台北，还是去过其他城市？

我去了台北，也顺道去了台南一趟。

喔，我最爱的城市，那真是美丽，是旧首都，对。

参加了一场很棒的徒步导览，好更深入感受那里的历史。而台湾当然有著，你知道的，这我不用跟你说，对，有著极其丰富的历史，也有一段艰难的历史，但这段历史在台南完整展现。

谢谢您。谢谢您，参议员，谢谢。希望您能有，更多趟台湾之行。

我也是，并从外岛看遍整个国家，到台湾东部，到各地的山脉，我等不及了。谢谢。

我们与台湾越是一致，并且与台湾合作，我相信，可能性就越低，我们根本不会看到冲突，因为我们知道的是，中华人民共和国并不想，因台湾而卷入大规模冲突，因台湾而卷入动能冲突，如果存在重大风险，美国将会介入。所以，商业往来越多，我们与台湾往来越多，就越有可能会有，保卫台湾的意愿，这也就意味著我们，发生冲突的可能性会大幅降低，根本不会卷入任何冲突。

the more we are aligned with Taiwan and working with Taiwan I believe the less likely it is that we will see a conflict at all Because what we know is the People's Republic of China does not want to engage in a large conflict over Taiwan a kinetic conflict over Taiwan If there is a significant risk the United States will get involved And so the more business and the more we do with Taiwan the more likely it is that the will exist to defend Taiwan which then will mean that we will have significantly less likelihood of having a conflict to engage in at all

Hi everyone Welcome to The Freedom is Not Free and Hardcore News Channels My name is Stan Today we're attending the yearly IPAC Inter-Parliamentary Alliance on China meeting and I have an honor to talk to Eliot Bostar who is Nebraska's state senator Senator thank you so much for agreeing to take part in my show And Senator introduced Nebraska's LB 1300 LB 644 and LB 1096 addressing Pacific Conflict Preparedness foreign adversary influence international repression agriculture and infrastructure security Senator is one of the closest friends of Taiwan in the state of Nebraska Thank you so much for agreeing to take part in my show Thank you for having me

Senator we are at the IPAC annual summit and this summit brings together lawmakers from democracies around the world From your perspective as an American state legislator why is an organization like IPAC that important?

Well so first of all this is my second year at IPAC and it's always an inspiring experience to come together with policymakers from around the world with a shared focus and shared vision of ensuring that democratic values and freedom and cooperation around the world will succeed in the face of the alternative And our focus is of course on that alternative being represented by the efforts of the People's Republic of China to stifle freedom to stifle democracy and to essentially take a controlling interest in the self-determination of countries around the world

You just said the alternative What is the alternative to being a democracy?

Because I think many of the American people, Taiwanese Americans, have been living in democracy for more than 200 years. Taiwanese, it's a younger democracy, but still many people don't know what is the alternative. Could you tell everyone?

You know I think you can see it. You can see what the alternative to democracy looks like within the PRC from the outside. Certainly you see it from the inside, but you can also watch it from the outside and you can see how it plays out in other countries around the world.

You know even at IPAC, for example, there are numerous members of parliament from free countries represented around the world who are bullied into not coming here, who are punished for coming here, who are sanctioned for coming here, who are who experience consequences to their constituencies or to themselves or threats to them personally for simply participating in a free expression of ideas and an exchange of communication. And that represents the antithesis of freedom. And so we see it in this summit every year.

Yeah I think no politician, no legislator from a democracy should be pressured by any foreign country into doing anything. Like the only people you're responsible for are people who vote for you, right?

Exactly.

People in your state.

So, you've been actively involved in legislation to counter foreign interference and protect Nebraska from hostile foreign influence. But for many Americans, many American people see it as a foreign policy issue, as more of federal government. Why do you think the states should be involved in this issue as well?

Well so, and to be clear, in Nebraska we aren't doing anything that is counter to the efforts of the federal government. And this also isn't a partisan endeavor, right? So I have been working on this while the White House was occupied by a Democratic president. I've been working on this while the White House is occupied by a Republican president. I coordinate with our federal representatives, the Department of Defense, Department of Homeland Security, the National Security Council consistently about what is needed for states to be doing.

And one thing I'll add is the conversations that certainly I've had as a state lawmaker with, for example, members of the National Security Council, it doesn't change fundamentally depending on who's in the White House. This really is a well-understood problem and risk that we need to be addressing at all levels of government. And this isn't a political question. This is about ensuring that the livelihoods of the people that we are responsible for is protected.

And Nebraska has taken a rather big step of preparing for the potential consequences of a conflict in the Indo-Pacific. And what motivated this initiative and what should other American states learn from Nebraska's experience and Nebraska's approach towards Taiwan?

Right. So we created a statutory committee that is actually a joint committee of the legislative branch of government and the executive branch of government of the state of Nebraska and that is the Pacific Conflict Committee. And it's tasked with a few different activities, one of which is to complete the Pacific Conflict Stress Test and to do that regularly. And that takes several forms, but on a fundamental level it is an analysis of what the consequences of a hypothetical conflict in the Pacific would have on the state of Nebraska and its residents.

And so we look at things like our imports, exports. We look at not just imports and exports, for example, from China, but from the Pacific region. Because any sort of conflict that occurs in the Pacific wouldn't just cut off trade with China or Taiwan or the Philippines. It would disrupt trade across the entire Pacific region. And so we have to have a very comprehensive approach to evaluating what that means for Nebraskans and doing what we can to prepare.

Also understanding that any potential conflict in the Pacific very likely would come with some kinetic consequences on our home soil. You know it's not a secret. It's been discussed by the Defense Department repeatedly that in an attempt to keep the United States out of a Pacific conflict, we should expect significant disruptions through our critical infrastructure or food supply or anything else or you know communications. Things that would make life within the United States less stable, giving Americans more things to worry about at home so that we would be less prepared and willing to engage in the protection of democracy abroad. And so we also go through an audit: where are the risk factors to everyday Nebraskans, where are we exposed, and how can we work now to enhance those protections and make sure that if that day comes and hopefully it does not that we're ready?

Is Nebraska dependent on trade with China?

I think we're we all are exposed to trade with China both from an import perspective and an export. You know Nebraska's an agricultural state and the People's Republic of China you know their biggest imports are agricultural products and our biggest exports are agricultural products. So we have an exposure there.

We also not just for Nebraska but for the United States in general are have become far too reliant on specific manufacturing inputs critical minerals that are increasingly only available through Chinese trade. And so you know and that's not a problem that's even unique to the US. That's a problem for the world. And I know a lot of effort is being put into trying to address that.

But just for us you know when we look at take something as important but mundane as electrical transmission equipment and you know grid transformers for our electrical supply. The components of those come from a lot of places. And so doing the work of understanding where those components come from and where alternative supplies may exist we might want to move to those now. But at the very least understanding what that landscape looks like so that on day one of any kind of conflict we have an adequate inventory of what we need to do.

And do you think building better relationships and stronger relationships with Taiwan can decrease this reliance on not very friendly partners like People's Republic of China?

I do and I do for a couple of reasons. I mean certainly Taiwan is a friend to the United States. And we need to be moving as much dependency and interdependency away from our adversaries and toward our friends and toward ourselves frankly as well. We need more self-reliance and we need more friend reliance. So from that perspective I think that's important.

But also the more we are aligned with Taiwan and working with Taiwan I believe the less likely it is that we will see a conflict at all. Because what we know is the People's Republic of China does not want to engage in a large conflict over Taiwan a kinetic conflict over Taiwan. If there is a significant risk the United States will get involved. And so the more business and the more we do with Taiwan the more likely it is that the will exist to defend Taiwan which then will mean that we will have significantly less likelihood of having a conflict to engage in at all.

Looking at the current United States policy and it comes from both sides of the political spectrum partners all around the world are worried especially in Taiwan that the support of the United States of Taiwan will stay as strong as it is right now. Do you have anything to say to the Taiwanese people? And do you think that the United States will remain the main and the strongest ally of Taiwan's?

I do. I you know I I'm proud that the United States is an ally of Taiwan and my hope is that that makes Taiwan proud as well. You know the United States is certainly also interested in seeing Taiwan take the steps it needs to take to ensure that it is also aggressively preparing for its own defense.

I like the saying "aggressively preparing". And because I think that's what these times require. And just as I was saying before that the more we work together the less likely a conflict will be. Similarly the more Taiwan can prepare itself defensively the less likely those defenses will need to be deployed.

And so I think the US wants to see that happen. But at the same time from my experience I believe that the United States can absolutely be a reliable ally to democracies around the world fighting for freedom.

Thank you so much Senator.

Thank you very much.

And one final question. Have you ever been to Taiwan?

I have. I went recently.

Okay.

I was in Taiwan a little over a month ago. And I can't wait to go back.

Where you've been in Taiwan? Taipei or you've visited some other cities?

So I was in Taipei and also took a short trip to Tainan.

Oh my favorite city.

Which was beautiful.

The old capital yeah.

went through a wonderful walking tour to really get a better feel for the history.

And Taiwan of course has you know. I don't have to tell you.

Yep.

Has an incredibly rich history and a difficult history. But one that was on full display in Tainan.

Thank you Senator.

Thank you.

And hope that you'll have more trips to Taiwan.

So do I.

And see all the country from outer islands to the eastern part of Taiwan to the mountains everywhere.

I can't wait.

Thank you