专访共和党资深议员迪亚兹-巴拉特：与北京达成的任何协议须“不信任、要核实”

美国之音采访佛罗里达州共和党众议员马里奥·迪亚兹-巴拉特，谈到众议院谴责社会主义的决议、特朗普政府对古巴施压，以及美国对华政策。他主张对华协议必须可执行、可核实，并谈及人工智能风险、与中国建立沟通渠道，以及美国国会对台湾关系的支持。

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Joining us now is Congressman Mario Díaz-Balart of Florida. Thank you, Congressman, for speaking with Voice of America. “My pleasure.”

I would like to start with House Resolution 1490. The bill condemns socialism in all its forms. President Trump made strong remarks about Cuba earlier today at the United Nations General Assembly, calling Cuba a failed state and saying that communism will never come to America, but freedom will come to Cuba. Do you see President Trump’s remarks as consistent with the purpose of the resolution that recently passed the House?

I do. Socialism has been destructive everywhere and every time it has been attempted. The communists themselves have always said that socialism is just the first step toward communism. Whatever name you put on it, those Marxist policies have never worked, except to create misery and scarcity, and ultimately repression.

It has been tried multiple times, in multiple countries and different eras, and always with the same result. That is why we have to guard against it coming to the United States. If anybody wants to know how socialism works—or doesn’t work—they can look at Venezuela and Cuba, and they will say, “That’s not what we’re trying to do.” But without exception, wherever it has been tried, it leads to the same ending: misery, tyranny, scarcity, and poverty.

Do you support the administration taking steps to promote political change in Cuba? What specific actions would you like to see the United States take?

I am convinced that the regime in Havana, that terrorist regime, will not survive the next two years of a Trump administration. I say that because of the policies the administration has been implementing: no more tolerance toward this anti-American regime, which has troops fighting for Putin in Russia and has been a cancer in this hemisphere—in the Western Hemisphere—and a cancer to the United States. It has also been a cancer in Africa.

According to Ukrainian intelligence, there are Cuban operatives fighting for Putin in Ukraine. Cuba is a small, bankrupt country, and it uses every dollar and euro it gets not to help the Cuban people, but to do harm to its own people and around the world. This president is not willing to accept that. You have seen the policy of pressure, not only against that regime but also against those who have been facilitating and helping it. It is having an effect.

Here is the key point: that regime is sitting on anywhere between $18 billion and $20 billion in hard cash, in hard currency. And yet the Cuban people do not even have water, electricity, or basic necessities. It is not because the money is unavailable, but because every dollar or euro the regime has received over the years, and continues to receive, is used to repress its own people and do harm around the world.

This administration is not willing to accept that. They are keenly aware of what the regime has been doing and are not willing to accept it. That is good for the Cuban people, good for the hemisphere, and ultimately very good for the national security interests of the United States.

Speaking of Cuba and communist governments, China naturally comes to mind. Why is the United States taking a different approach toward China than toward Cuba?

Every case is different, and how you handle different cases has to be different. Foreign policy is not a one-size-fits-all kind of policy; it cannot be. Foreign policy has to be dictated, first and foremost, by the national security interests of the United States.

In China’s case, whether we like it or not, it has nuclear weapons, a huge military, and a very large economy. Therefore, you cannot ignore that reality. In Cuba’s case, we are talking about a state sponsor of terrorism 90 miles away from the United States. Pretending those differences do not exist is simply not living in reality. The United States dealt differently with the Soviet empire and has dealt differently with different countries. You have to deal with them individually, but here is the key: you have to remember who you are dealing with.

China is huge and powerful, and it has a very large military, but it is not our ally. We always have to be aware of that and treat China with that in mind. In the case of Cuba, Venezuela, or North Korea, you have to know who you are dealing with. Many people have said in the past that Cuba is a small country, so we should not worry about it. But it is a small country with a great deal of influence in the United States’ relationship with the Western Hemisphere. We have to be concerned about what it does.

Chinese President Xi Jinping is coming to Washington tomorrow to meet with President Trump. What would you consider a successful outcome from their meeting?

It is interesting. Again, you have to know who you are dealing with, right? China is a very powerful country, and that has to be recognized. You have to deal with China, whether you like it or not.

I know the president is interested in having conversations about artificial intelligence, which I think is key. AI is here to stay. We could stop AI entirely in the United States, and that would not stop China from continuing to do what it is doing with AI. The question is whether there can be an enforceable agreement with China that we can verify, with controls to make sure AI does not get out of control.

I hear that one thing the United States is considering is having direct contact with China, like we had with the Soviet Union during the Cold War—something like a red phone—in case AI gets out of control, either in China or anywhere else. Lines of communication like that are very positive. But I have to remind everybody: AI is here to stay. Either we will be on the cutting edge of AI, or China will not stop.

Can we do things, including using AI, to help stop China from doing really bad and dangerous things? Any agreement on AI would have to be verifiable. President Reagan used to say about the Soviet Union, “Trust but verify.” When I think of China, it is “distrust and verify.” If we can have an arrangement with China that can be verified, that would be a win.

There has been discussion about the Trump administration’s approach to Taiwan. As chairman of the House Taiwan Caucus, do you see any changes in Taiwan policy? Do you still see bipartisan support from Congress for Taiwan?

I am glad you mentioned and asked about Congress’s attitude toward Taiwan. We have to remember that the special relationship with Taiwan is really based on the relationship between the United States Congress and Taiwan. Under the Carter administration, President Carter, in his wisdom—or lack of wisdom, I would say—basically broke relations with Taiwan and recognized communist China, giving our ally Taiwan merely two hours’ notice.

Congress stepped in, in a bipartisan fashion, and Congress has continued to lead in a very strong bipartisan fashion. That is all the time we have today. I really appreciate your time. Thank you for speaking with Voice of America. “Thank you.”